Admin Troubles

[Mr.Cat]

I'm going to chime in here, and while I'm not an admin on Disc I was on the server at the time and am a regular player on the Disc-FF Dodgeball server.

Frog did in-fact have a go at Leaf, provoking him and making rude remarks. The chat-logs speak for themselves on the incident- but I'd like to take the opportunity to point out some background and observations regarding both Leaf and Frog.

On one hand, Frog is often very toxic, doing and saying things to rile people up and get them upset for his/her own amusement. Behavior that Frog has readily admitted to. With this in mind, the doesn't gag seem unfair- Though the gag's duration(Which I payed no attention to, as I often local-mute frog myself) may or may not be questionable. People that go out of their way to ruin the fun for others can ruin a server, driving away players who just don't want to deal with it when they're trying to relax and have fun with a game. Allowing players to do this to admins can also undermine their authority and greatly hinder their ability to keep the server in-line without handing out a lot of bans.

On the other hand, Leaf can be very over-zealous at times. As an admin he really shouldn't threaten people with lines like "You really wanna do that" and throw his weight as an admin around. Even though he is more often than not enforcing the rules, harping on every-little thing can also be detrimental to the server and reflect poorly on it, making the admins seem abusive. It can also draw out that very same toxic behavior as the more juvenile players test their limits to see what they can get away with and what they can't. Personally I suggest learning to pick and choose your battles, and asking instead of demanding, as it often gets a much less hostile response. As an example- people are much more inclined to listen to someone who says 'Hey man, could you chill out with that?' as opposed to someone who says 'Keep it up and it's a ban'.

In summary, Frog would do well to stop being so toxic as intentionally ruining the fun for others is frowned upon pretty-much everywhere worth playing and will eventually get them removed from any decent community. Leaf would do well to mellow out just a bit and perhaps re-evaluate his approach to enforcing the rules, because it's not that they shouldn't be enforced- but that the way one goes about doing so matters just as much as the rules themselves, and harping on every minor 'grey-area' infringement of the rules will lead to burn out, you won't want to play anymore as it becomes more of a chore than an enjoyable game.

I do hope this post offers both some background into both parties and insight into their behavioral tendencies, and what they might do or not do to improve.

[Dubstab]

Altough I would love to thank you for all your time you spent into typing this. But uhm.. Why did you not just reply on his/her thread?

[Mr.Cat]

Altough I would love to thank you for all your time you spent into typing this. But uhm.. Why did you not just reply on his/her thread?

Uhmm, because this is on their thread? Perhaps you were confused by my response being the first post on the second page.

[Serena]

How is the duration questionable? It's 30 minutes.
If this report isn't about the gag and it is clear that Frog deserved some kind of punishment, Leaf doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. If he were to gag him for more than a day, maybe I'd say it's a bit much, but it's 30 minutes for admin disrespect. But according to you, Mr. Cat, if Frog is so "toxic" they probably deserved an even longer gag/mute. About how Leaf admins, a strict admin does not equal to an abusive one.
If you don't obey the rules and if you disrespect be generally rude to players/admins, you deserve some kind of punishment. It's in the rules for everyone to see.

[Mr.Cat]

How is the duration questionable? It's 30 minutes.

I did say "may or may not be", as I'm not familiar with your internal policies on handling players. (Any moderate to large gaming community should have an admin guide outlining procedures for common incidents so that enforcement is relatively uniform across the board and people can't complain that jimmy did x and got y punishment but when bob did x he only got z punishment)

If this report isn't about the gag and it is clear that Frog deserved some kind of punishment, Leaf doesn't seem to have done anything wrong.

This report is not an example of Leaf going over-board but it is still a good opportunity to point out that the way an admin chooses to enforce the rules matters when it comes to the communities perception of them.

If he were to gag him for more than a day, maybe I'd say it's a bit much, but it's 30 minutes for admin disrespect. But according to you, Mr. Cat, if Frog is so "toxic" they probably deserved an even longer gag/mute.

I have to disagree there. Punishment should be uniform, repeat offenses should warrant longer/harsher punishment within the communities guidelines- and that information should be tracked and readily displayed for admins so that any admin can see a history of player's past problems and can then take appropriate action whether they were the admin dealing with the player in the past or it was another member of the admin team. Larger communities often have admin bots and/or IRC channels for that very purpose. (as well as serving as means of contacting admins with a call for admin command in addition automatically handling some basic administrative tasks like Warning, kicking, banning for racism) Hell, I still occasionally support an old TF2 admin bot for a gaming community I used to run before I cashed out and stopped playing TF2 for awhile a few years back.

About how Leaf admins, a strict admin does not equal to an abusive one.

You're right, a strict admin does not necessarily equal an abusive one, but that is in fact how most people will view a strict admin if they're not careful about how they come across, especially when they come across as Leaf often does. I personally understand he doesn't mean it the way it tends to be received, but others have clearly voiced that they do not like it. This is not me trying to berate Leaf, it's just that the way he comes across does not do him any favors and makes him a prime target for the very kind of toxic behavior described in this thread. I don't personally have a problem with Leaf but I've heard several complaints about him on server when he's not there. I'm simply suggesting an alternative course of action to improve this perception of him. I'm not trying to get him in any form of trouble or get any sort of action taken against him. I just wanted to offer some insight in to why he's perceived this way and how to change that perception for the better.

If you don't obey the rules and if you disrespect be generally rude to players/admins, you deserve some kind of punishment.

I agree entirely, You appear to be mistaken my attempts to convey observations as an attempt to defend Frog's behavior, or argue with the rules. I assure you that neither of these is the case. Again I also don't feel a gag was at all unwarranted- I've simply noticed a behavioral trend with frog that I wanted to point out so they can be dealt with appropriately in the future, and lend some insight into why Leaf comes across as abusive to some of the regular players when he's enforcing the rules, and other admins like Banshee, Jasmine, MoneyKidKing, and Samba who also frequent the dodgeball server do not, so that in light of this event, he can perhaps not be a target for this kind of behavior, and not be perceived as abusive. I'd hoped that pointing this out on a thread where Leaf was clearly in the right to take administrative action against a player would make this intention obvious. =/

I do hope this long wall of text clears things up a bit.

[SpicyCandy]

Reviewing.