Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

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|inspector_spy|
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Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by |inspector_spy| »

A little bird told me that Fire thinks Idle 1 is dying. While I don't entirely agree, if it is, its because toxic players are allowed to get away with stupid shit. These toxic regulars frequently bully off new players and admins don't do anything, and when they do Fire undermines their attempts. Now, Idle is not that important to me, but I like some of the people on it, and I frequently visit it. Not all regulars attract players Fire, there are people who enjoy harassing others, and I don't mean killing em over and over. I mean targeting their steam profile with comments, spamming insults in chat, and recruiting others to do the same. There even was one particular instance where one of these people tried to get someone banned falsely as a part of their shittery. Most regulars do target other players in-game, but this is not the same thing as what some of these other players do. Targeting players in-game and killing them is acceptable, but going out on steam and harassing them until they don't play for half of a year is ridiculous. However, I don't expect this to make any difference, if you were actually observant and did something other than idle on your servers 24/7, you would realize that many of the players on your servers (atleast on Idle) don't like you that much(understatement), few if any on the forums will defend this statement most likely because they are either admins/mods/staff or because they bothered to get on the forums in the first place, so they likely expect to gain something from joining your community , aka-not knowing that the owner either doesn't give a shit or hardly interacts with the community outside of the forums and is unaware of the distaste for his leadership(Not sure which one, just for clarification). Again, not that I think any of this will change, since no one can change any of this but Fire. I mean, my screwing with staff aside 8-) , based on my experience, even if I were to gain support from all the admins and a large portion of the communities support, nothing would happen. Also, just as a side note,I believe the idles likely are a glimpse into the future of DISC-FF's other servers, since if the idles die, where do you think the toxic players will go? However, I will say that, weirdly enough, this issue is currently only on Idle #1. So if you don't regularly play on Idle #1 then you will not likely have experienced this.


P.S-I would love it if Fire actually did something to fix this, but I realize that he has a life outside TF2. Maybe he should use the revenue the servers make to hire developers/actually motivated admins that can fix these issues?????????? :O, just a suggestion, since, well, its the suggestions thread.
Last edited by |inspector_spy| on Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Warband
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by Warband »

I agree, I believe that Fire doesn't know his servers first hand and sit undermines his admins decisions. A month or so ago, a guy by the name of "school shooter" was hacking on idle 1. It was very obvious, he was locking on to people and had wallhacks. Zivala banned him and Fire unbanned him for some reason, I don't know why... From my understanding it was because he had "5k hours and was a regular". This is bullshit, he was hacking and Zivala had demos. But Fire still vouched for him. Again, similarly, Zivala banned Cedricsoul from idle 1 for being a toxic person and bullying with the intent to hurt people. Cedricsoul was later unbanned by Fire, again for a reason I don't exactly know why. From my knowledge, and from other peoples accounts, Cedricsoul is disliked my the majority of the idle 1 regulars for harassment and toxicity, and still was unbanned. Meanwhile, Fire continues to afk in the idle 1 spawnbelt, and continues to not give a fuck about what happens on his servers.
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White Sedan
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by White Sedan »

You could always take matters into your own hands if you feel the admins aren't doing a good enough job dealing with the toxic players. I personally have no idea if the Idle admins are just ignoring what these supposed bullying victims are saying to them or not, but if they have proof such as screenshots, chat logs, or demos, they can certainly post a report on the forums and action will be taken by me, another forum mod, or a global admin if the situation calls for it.
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by |inspector_spy| »

White Sedan wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:49 pm You could always take matters into your own hands if you feel the admins aren't doing a good enough job dealing with the toxic players. I personally have no idea if the Idle admins are just ignoring what these supposed bullying victims are saying to them or not, but if they have proof such as screenshots, chat logs, or demos, they can certainly post a report on the forums and action will be taken by me, another forum mod, or a global admin if the situation calls for it.
|inspector_spy| wrote: A little bird told me that Fire thinks Idle 1 is dying. While I don't entirely agree, if it is, its because toxic players are allowed to get away with stupid shit. These toxic regulars frequently bully off new players and admins don't do anything, and when they do Fire undermines their attempts.
I would if Fire wasnt the one who unbanned the toxic player Sedan, thats why I'm major upsetti, hell, Zivala fuckin quit cuz of Fire's bs. So Fire knows so little about what is happening on the server and with the people, and still vetoes decisions despite not being in the know about what the player has done and how manipulative they are? They tried to weaponize an ADMIN to ban a player. I would bet money that they sucked up to Fire, and Fire had no idea who they were and how bad they acted on the server. He is actually almost always Idle btw.
Last edited by |inspector_spy| on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by Fire »

I don't know exactly what is going on in the server because I don't play there. I have never known what exactly has been going on in any of my servers. I have admins whose job it is to enforce the rules I put into place and give me feed back and discuss issues going on in the servers. Every month (besides this one) for years we hold a admin meeting where we discuss such topics.

The player Cedric made a appeal on the forums and was replied to by Zivala. I read everything posted there and then called Zivala into Teamspeak to discuss the issue. We do not issue Perm Bans to players for talking shit. We have a punishment guideline system which lays out which punishments should be issued and the max lenght of the punishment. As we were discussing the issues nothing different was stated from what I had already read in the appeal. I told Zivala I was going to remove the punishment and he is free to issues punishments on this player following our guidelines. He then told me I don't know how to run a community and left the Teamspeak and removed me from friends. I was going to let him cool down and not even remove his admin but him removing me, and other things I was hearing, made me feel like it probably wasn't safe to allow him to keep his admin powers, so I removed him. I then removed Cedric's ban and made a post on his appeal:

https://www.disc-ff.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 618#p88748
Fire wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:15 pm We don't perm ban people for shit talking. Your punishment has been lifted. However, please try and refrain from harrassing people through text/voice and targetting them specifically on the server to be killed. If I find out you are doing this I will personally look into punishing you and you don't want that. Thanks.
If there is other evidence of wrong doing feel free to make a report on this player and I will happily read it and act appropriately. However, things being said here are not things that were said in the appeal or by Zivala on Teamspeak so I will need to be filled in.

As for the school shooter guy I am not a hack detection expert. His shoots were suspect but I spent a few hours looking at them and talking it over with other admins. And from what I saw it was plausible that he wasn't hacking and what was shown in the demo was video lag or something else. When I check to see if someone is hacking there are also other factors I take into account. Has this person been banned on any other servers? Does this person have alt accounts? Does this person have any VAC bans? Is this a new account or has this person been playing a long time? So given everything I decided to unban him, it wasn't on a whim.

In this world there are going to be people who like you and people who don't. I do my best as a the owner of this community to provide custom servers people can enjoy.
Last edited by Fire on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by Zivala »

White Sedan wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:49 pm You could always take matters into your own hands if you feel the admins aren't doing a good enough job dealing with the toxic players.
Hopefully this quote works, never really tried quoting anything. It's really hard to get one's feet into adminship, especially on Idle. Plague and Lizard, no offense you're my friends, but you both have afk'd a sneezable portion of hours, Spookleton admits to almost always being AFK when on(since Spook plays the weird ends of the day). This makes it hard to leave an impression that "Hey this regular that plays daily might be a weenie, but they can also do this" these days. It's harder to ignore things than it is to know about them in the first place, since it was hard to be on a lot to see things in person.

Undecided is a common phrase used about any applicants, the side-discord that was made for the idle admins to talk about things isn't really used, and what feels like isn't even really looked at. We never even gathered to decide on Infernox's application or the other applicant for that month. Plague didn't even note Shack's application until a few days after it was posted, which as it was posted I linked it to said discord. There's a weird disconnect.

With report not working (as it causes crashes if I recall correctly) I basically need a narc to let me know if there was a spray on the server that shouldn't be there, or if something is happening or has happened. Maybe that's why things came out of left field with me, because it's more or less just me there and I don't want to always be there just watching everything happen. Game's felt too repetitive to me for the past few months. So my scope of what I was looking at had to adjust as things were brought to my attention.

This got weirdly longer than it was supposed to. I guess the idle admins are just really way too disjointed and undecided. Makes it almost a popularity contest of who gets votes of sorts. So it makes it hard to care about anything.

Edit: And by 'popularity contest', I mean it's more or less anyone that's already known that doesn't have some kind of reputation for something, like targeting someone or jokingly yelling things at admins. Let's take Shack's application. It's probably going to slide by with at least one undecided vote, given Lizard is away for personal reasons mixed with work reasons, it's hard to get to know Spookleton, and Plague I'm not sure how he feels about the idea... People willing to even try, get rid of their binds, and stop playing so ambiguously like 'are they joking are they not?' to people will get gunned down before even getting to try to take matters into their own hands.
Last edited by Zivala on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by |inspector_spy| »

But its really hard to use guidelines when the admins never punished him when they should have. From my experience, several gags should have been applied in the past, which, from my understanding of the guidelines, would make a ban a bit more acceptable if he were to spam/harass a player. However, I want you to know that the vast majority of idle admins are almost never on. I don't know them all though, just Lizard and Plague now that Zivala is no longer an admin. So there was little to no chance in the past for cedric to be punished. I believe I made this post somewhat too passionate, so I will make it clear. If your never on your servers, and the report system is broken, and the idle admins dont do anything, and the globals dont want to be there because its toxic, what do we do? Wait for him to break the rules, and gag him 10 times, then ban him. I understand the need to follow your guidelines, as well as ensure any nuances are taken into account, but guidelines should also have special exceptions. A player with a history of harassment and trying to get people banned is not someone that should need previous punishments. Of course this is an opinion. Though, its always an option to play on a different server if Cedric decides to show his face, or maybe we could do the same thing he does to him. It would be very hypocritical, but its not like we would be punished right?
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by Fire »

How am I supposed to judge someone has a history of anything without any sort of proof? I made my choice given the information I had read and my conversation with Zivala.
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by |inspector_spy| »

Yes,but do you expect that one of the three admins (who have lives outside of TF2) that actually administrate will be there to apprehend cedric the required amount to finally ban him like he should be? I doubt it, I mean, if you cant trust your admins words why were they ever admins?
Last edited by |inspector_spy| on Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mismanagement (or utter lack of management) of the TF2 Idles

Post by White Sedan »

I have discussed this matter privately with the OP and the player in question has been punished. Locking.
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