zorark complaint

Petricor
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zorark complaint

Post by Petricor »

zorark from boss pack 1 is annoying to fight against because its time consuming, annoying, and unfair mostly because they have a high health pool, hide around the map with cloak and disguise, and are extremely fast, which makes it unbalanced in fighting. I think the server's better off without this boss because its just hide and seek and annoying to play against, OR he can be fixed so he's not so distant in fighting against, or just lower his health since he has so much stealth, many ways he can be fixed. theres been many complaints in chat recently about it, and i managed to take a snapshot of the chat since this one was giving more detail about why its such a nuisance on the server

https://imgur.com/a/VBBW7Bs
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Faiithe
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Faiithe »

Suggest more ways to make Zoroark better and balanced instead of complaining that he's an OP stealth boss. And saying to lower his health and not elaborate is a weak suggestion.

Also, screenshots of people complaining isn't much of evidence as everyone always complain about anything about any boss..

Also also, it looks like it's the same people complaining in every screenshot.
Last edited by Faiithe on Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Varple
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Varple »

Even if people agree with your complaint if you formulate it better, and as faiithe said to give some suggestions. Your complaint will be taken more seriously. Instead, it looks like you're bickering.
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many_swords
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by many_swords »

I'd also like to point out that Zoroark is currently at a 48% win rate. so by all means the boss is balanced. The only real reason people complain about him is because he is a stealth boss and people don't like to fight any stealth boss..
Feel free to message me on the community discord if you have any questions.
Petricor
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Petricor »

Faiithe wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:22 am Suggest more ways to make Zoroark better and balanced instead of complaining that he's an OP stealth boss. And saying to lower his health and not elaborate is a weak suggestion.

Also, screenshots of people complaining isn't much of evidence as everyone always complain about anything about any boss..

Also also, it looks like it's the same people complaining in every screenshot.
just bc im complaining doesnt mean i have to track down his cons in-game, or to research what would make him better other than how he is now, and i never said that my suggestions on the post were to be taken seriously. and you're right that people complain about anything about any boss, but most of those people were sometimes joking, and were most of the times making those claims by themselves, without anyone else agreeing on them. this was a major event where everyone agreed upon each other that zorark is an annoying boss to deal with, doing nothing but wasting time. there's a difference between people that plays the game daily and who doesnt. also, it looks like it's the same people complaining in every screenshot because you never looked close enough. Scout Main Epic, Shakes, Ishtar, Me, Kary, Sol Invictus, PopTopMop, a few others with related opinions, and it's a good amount of people sharing their bad opinions about zorark, and if you see them talking about him more, then you can clearly tell it isnt a joke. and i bet that if you ask any one of those players i've mentioned, they'll give you in full depth why zorark is horrible. my suggestions shouldn't be taken seriously, the only thing that should be taken seriously is the complaint of what i said about him, and the supporting details for my claim OF the of a majority of people who play here daily. there's many examples and details from the screenshots that can elaborate on why hes annoying, i'll make it easier for you to understand from the screenshots.

Ishtar: 10 minute round hale lol
- make him less time consuming

Sol Invictus: broken maybe not, just annoying and no fun
- if he's balanced @many, atleast make him less of a nuisance to play against. his abilties may vary on that

PopTop: it takes me 10 minutes to load up the server itself, and then this bullshit, why o why, god?
- doesnt take a genius to understand what he said and to fix it

Shakes: the amount of complaints should tell you how broken the boss is
-this can support my complaint, and shakes had said multiple things the boss is obnoxious in doing [Faster Than Scout Speed] [Cloak] [Disguise] [Large Health Pool] [Short Superjump Cooldown], pretty much a hide and seek boss, not so fun when you're dead or sitting by the team not doing anything because you can't find him, and if you try to find him you end up dead, and you wait for the next 10 minutes for the hide and seek cycle continues.

Epic Scout Main: this hale is the worst, this hale was made for stalling
- doesnt take a genius to understand what he said and to fix it

Petri: ^
- agree's with everything being said

Kary: 10 min left and we have only played 2 boss rounds
- boss clearly delays the game, no evidence needed hop on the server when someones playing as zorark, you'll get annoyed and see how long it takes for a single round of that boss to finish, atleast one complaint is said every time someone plays as zorark (don't relate to static shock because they've already fixed him and no one complains about him anymore, only as a joke since he had a history of not being well balanced).
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Petricor
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Petricor »

Varple wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:39 am Even if people agree with your complaint if you formulate it better, and as faiithe said to give some suggestions. Your complaint will be taken more seriously. Instead, it looks like you're bickering.
most people who use forums aren't really knowledgeable from the freak fortress 2 server, as some tend to just play the game, not to be constructive, participate in forums because they don't know or they're not really engaged on forums, or being involved in different parts of disc-ff (forums, discord), and only to play on the server. that leads to a very VERY few amounts of players who play on the game server, and being active in forums at the same time, for example there's players like jon, who only uses forums and doesn't play the game, or epic scout main, who doesnt use forums but only plays the game. if there's people like jon they obviously wouldn't understand the point i'm trying to get at, but if there's people in between both of them that uses forums and plays the game, they'd be more aware of what i'm talking about and agree on with me. there's a certain division of people that would know and wouldn't, and it depends on how they're active both game and association wise. straight to the point making a choice to agree or disagree with me when you haven't even seen what I talked about in-game operates differently with others that actually access forums and play the game at the same time.

most likely a
People that see without playing the game - No vote
People that see while playing the game - Yes vote
is what i'm trying to get at
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Petricor
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Petricor »

many_swords wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:41 am I'd also like to point out that Zoroark is currently at a 48% win rate. so by all means the boss is balanced. The only real reason people complain about him is because he is a stealth boss and people don't like to fight any stealth boss..
did research on that 48% because it seemed unreal, but that's correct, it feels like it should be an 80% win rate because of how often he succeeds at winning on open maps instead of closed maps that has many possible sentry placement hotspots. but even if it is true that he's balanced he still needs reworkings to make him not so fustrating to play against, especially the amount it takes to even end the match chasing him and trapping him. it's really just an attack and hide type of boss with the abilities he has, and thats extremely annoying to do. if its the case that they may not like bosses designed to be stealthy, something still has to be done with the amount it takes to end the round against them.
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many_swords
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by many_swords »

Ishtar: 10 minute round hale lol
- make him less time consuming
happens with every boss, its more so the person playing him needs to stop being so passive.
Sol Invictus: broken maybe not, just annoying and no fun
- if he's balanced @many, atleast make him less of a nuisance to play against. his abilties may vary on that
People find weeping angel annoying because of her rage. People find Deman annoying because of his minion spam. People hate Shulks ability to spam jump in circles for 5 minutes to get one kill. If we tried to fix everything just because people think its annoying there wouldn't be an end to it because everyone is annoyed by something some boss has. You say change him, but the only change you ever hint at is to reduce the cloak or the health on a boss that is already losing slightly over half of his matches.
PopTop: it takes me 10 minutes to load up the server itself, and then this bullshit, why o why, god?
- doesnt take a genius to understand what he said and to fix it
If it takes you 10 minutes to load the server alone then I feel like a longer boss round is the least of your problems.
Shakes: the amount of complaints should tell you how broken the boss is
-this can support my complaint, and shakes had said multiple things the boss is obnoxious in doing [Faster Than Scout Speed] [Cloak] [Disguise] [Large Health Pool] [Short Superjump Cooldown], pretty much a hide and seek boss, not so fun when you're dead or sitting by the team not doing anything because you can't find him, and if you try to find him you end up dead, and you wait for the next 10 minutes for the hide and seek cycle continues.
Again if the boss is so broken then he wouldn't be losing nearly as much as he does. Even past bosses that people would suicide with one alive at the end of the round have shown some difference compared to this. Also the jump the boss has is the same as guts dash ability with the only difference being that its stronger since it has a longer cool down then guts does.
Epic Scout Main: this hale is the worst, this hale was made for stalling
- doesnt take a genius to understand what he said and to fix it
This part is pretty much worthless in my opinion. The same player was complaining about the bosses rage. Which I shouldn't need to comment considering its literally only a screen darken that last a short amount of time and nothing else. Honestly that rage is extremely weak as opposed to pretty much any boss we have.
Petri: ^
- agree's with everything being said
By all means if you have an idea that fixes the issues you have with him without harming the current ratio your welcome to suggest it. But as the others said, your not giving any real suggestions and it looks/sounds like your just bickering over the fact that you dislike the boss.
Kary: 10 min left and we have only played 2 boss rounds
- boss clearly delays the game, no evidence needed hop on the server when someones playing as zorark, you'll get annoyed and see how long it takes for a single round of that boss to finish, atleast one complaint is said every time someone plays as zorark (don't relate to static shock because they've already fixed him and no one complains about him anymore, only as a joke since he had a history of not being well balanced).
At least one complaint is said every time someone plays pretty much any boss in general. Also sorry to say but If I hop on the server and a zoroark is wasting to much time I warn him to hurry up because I know how quick his rounds can be played and that the player is the one wasting time.

Overall if a player is taking forever to play a boss then its the player at fault to begin with, you can make a round take forever with any boss doing the same things people do with Zoroark. I've seen it time and time again with bosses as a whole and we used to get the exact same complaints about the hidden when he was a popular boss. I'm not saying that they shouldn't use hit and run tactics because that's part of the point with the boss. But players generally tend to think stealth means kill someone and then hide for long periods. In those kind of rounds usually an admin will get on their case to be quicker about it.
Feel free to message me on the community discord if you have any questions.
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Faiithe
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Faiithe »

people complain about anything about any boss, but most of those people were sometimes joking
Nnno they're serious when they complain about certain bosses they can't beat.

Scout Main Epic, Shakes, Ishtar, Me, Kary, Sol Invictus, PopTopMop, a few others with related opinions, and it's a good amount of people sharing their bad opinions about zorark, and if you see them talking about him more, then you can clearly tell it isnt a joke. and i bet that if you ask any one of those players i've mentioned, they'll give you in full depth why zorark is horrible.
You're calling out a lot of people here and you say that they can give more in depth suggestion on how to fix them and yet you seemed to have failed to discuss this with them thoroughly first to see how Zoroark can be fixed without hurting the ratio and instead provide screenshots of them complaining, which isn't evidence as I can probably screenshot people complaining on any other boss that they lose against.
PopTop: it takes me 10 minutes to load up the server itself, and then this bullshit, why o why, god?
- doesnt take a genius to understand what he said and to fix it
So because this certain individual took 10 minutes to load the server, everyone should adhere to his needs and move the round as quickly as possible so he can play the game (unless it was a purpose delay)?

if it is true that he's balanced he still needs reworkings to make him not so fustrating to play against
So basically make him unbalanced so he's easier to play against. Got it.

And like Many says, Zoroark's win ratio is basically at least a solid evidence that he's a balanced boss. It's the player themselves that either want to make sure they don't want to get killed fast by going invisible or just delaying the round on purpose (which happens to any boss so it would be the player's fault). At that point if you see them delaying the round longer than they're supposed to, ON PURPOSE, report them.
Last edited by Faiithe on Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Benstartri
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Re: zorark complaint

Post by Benstartri »

I want to say that it looks like your complaint on Zoroark is purely because you personally don't like the idea of a stealth boss tbh. You have "quotes" of people that complain in one post but don't have any screenshots to prove that, and the images you provide are basically of 1-2 people complaining about it in every screenshot.

As Many posted:
many_swords wrote: I'd also like to point out that Zoroark is currently at a 48% win rate. so by all means the boss is balanced.
And from my experience on Freak since this boss has been out I have only seen a small majority of people win, so I would almost think that this win rate would be LOWER.

If you REALLY believe that this boss is "OP" or "unfair to other players" then I would do as Faiithe, Many, and Varple says:

- Give thoughtful suggestions on changes/reworks that you believe would help the issue. COMPLAINING is not a suggestion. This is a lot of complaining
- Get actual evidence of the problem. People complaining is unfortunately common and is not very helpful for getting your point across.
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